I heard the terrible interview with Shannon Minter on the Dishcast last week—all she could say to Sullivan when he presented her with facts was “no, no, no.” Over and over! Just “no,” without argument or evidence.
All I could think about the whole embarrassment was, “you poor deluded fool.” I pity her.
My shorthand review of the debate between Sullivan and Minter. As the discussion turned to so called “gender affirming care” for children, Minter: deny reality, deny reality, deny reality. Later in the discussion after Sullivan had steadfastly called her out she began to: concede a little reality, concede a little reality, concede a little reality.
Well, there may well be "true trans," but only because autogynephilia truly is a condition that cause some of the men who have it to seek medical interventions to move closer to their fantasy of being a woman. This is why Andrew Sullivan's decision to withhold judgment on adult transitioning is a strategic mistake.
Yeah I was amazed at how nice Shannon was to him for the first 45 minutes of the interview. Then it started getting contentious and there was a paywall so I missed all the good stuff.
After listening to Sullivan’s podcast, this interview and the argument in the Australian case, it is ever more clear to me that a new organization needs to rise out of the ashes of the dumpster fire Minter et. al made of the NCLR. This is particularly true given the cases that are making their way to the SCOTUS. Lesbian intervenors and their amicus briefs played a pivotal role in the Scottish case, will likely play the same role in the Australian case and should also do so here. Isn’t it time for an American Center for Lesbian Rights to be born? Lesbians provide the legal checkmate to liberal jurists who’ve never had to contemplate exactly what it means to lesbians when the law replaces sex with gender. Force them to tell us the law requires us to recognize men as lesbians. We should be petitioning to become amici in every one of these cases.
The discussion about how different the left and the right are when it comes to discussing disagreements reminded me of watching the debate on the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act in the House. My partner was watching with me, and he asked, "Why do all the Republicans sound like normal people and all the Democrats sound like they're in a cult?" lol
An interesting interview; thank you! Going your own way -- especially in such powerful company, which brooks no dissent -- comes with a cost. Romy Mancini has been willing to pay it; I admire her courage.
I don't think gay rights naturally birthed "trans rights;" however many people conflate the two, they are logically dissonant. After all, if sex was just something you could declare rather than a biological reality, being same-sex attracted would be meaningless, and hardly worth objection. Also, it seems many trans-identified males aren't so much gender-nonconforming in the manner of many gays, but straight autogynephiles happy to have public support for their sexual fetish. If memory serves, Helen Joyce covers the bullying/coercive tactics of early gender activists to hitch their cause to gay rights in her book "Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality." If only earlier leaders of the gay rights movement had had clearer vision and stronger backbones.
Though I never liked the word "Pride," these marches (before they became shopping opportunities) were important, back in the day. In 1991, I co-founded the event in a religiously conservative/military city known for anti-gay sentiment. In that context, refusing to hide -- being publicly, visibly out -- made a statement: We would not stay closeted in deference to real threats to our jobs, our homes, our safety. Pride is now long obsolete in terms of its original purpose, and a travesty as co-opted by gender activists. The same could be said of former gay rights organizations that followed the money and betrayed their one-time constituents.
Sigh . . . there is much about banding together based on shared experiences of reality which is simply practical, a necessary first step to doing something to reduce injustices; but banding together based on a shared delusion is also a thing. Tricky to decide what's real and what's a delusion, though, especially in a population where fewer and fewer people are adequately literate, let alone scientifically literate. I am bothered by how so many gender criticals casually refer to "the patriarchy" as if it's just as self-evident as the sexual dimorphism of the human species. It's damn hard for us emotionally-blinkered creatures to accurately count the simplest phenomena in large populations, which is why process is so important. And Dr. Guyatt's recent sad example makes clear how being a world-renowned expert in how to do genuine science (as opposed to cargo cult science) provides no protection from deluding oneself. The widespread ignorance of master thinkers, like Thomas Sowell and Rose and Milton Friedman and Eleanor Ostrom among the educated elite progressives is a real problem (thanks to decrepit Universities, no longer devoted to knowledge). How bad have things had to get before so many of the liberal-minded finally wake up to the Yin Yang nature of reality? Pretty bad, when male fetishists feel free to show up to lesbian events and demand "inclusion." How to get the pendulum swinging back towards a more sane middle? There are no solutions, only trade-offs. No silver bullets . . .
Why "Mankeeping" is Alienating Everybody.
How turning human struggles into zero-sum battles pushes us further from real solutions.
how do you get rid of trans? One of the Horcrux of this movement is gay rights. trans has hijacked and poison pill gay rights not only that trans is a parasite and how do you get rid of a parasite you have to kill off the host.
Fascinating interview with Mancini.
I heard the terrible interview with Shannon Minter on the Dishcast last week—all she could say to Sullivan when he presented her with facts was “no, no, no.” Over and over! Just “no,” without argument or evidence.
All I could think about the whole embarrassment was, “you poor deluded fool.” I pity her.
My shorthand review of the debate between Sullivan and Minter. As the discussion turned to so called “gender affirming care” for children, Minter: deny reality, deny reality, deny reality. Later in the discussion after Sullivan had steadfastly called her out she began to: concede a little reality, concede a little reality, concede a little reality.
That interview was wild. Andrew being a “true trans” believer hampered him a bit in his argument but he did press Minter fairly hard.
Well, there may well be "true trans," but only because autogynephilia truly is a condition that cause some of the men who have it to seek medical interventions to move closer to their fantasy of being a woman. This is why Andrew Sullivan's decision to withhold judgment on adult transitioning is a strategic mistake.
Yeah I was amazed at how nice Shannon was to him for the first 45 minutes of the interview. Then it started getting contentious and there was a paywall so I missed all the good stuff.
I am going to put a link to this post in my weekly newsletter. I think it is encouraging to see others which have left the LGBTQXYZ+ ideology.
After listening to Sullivan’s podcast, this interview and the argument in the Australian case, it is ever more clear to me that a new organization needs to rise out of the ashes of the dumpster fire Minter et. al made of the NCLR. This is particularly true given the cases that are making their way to the SCOTUS. Lesbian intervenors and their amicus briefs played a pivotal role in the Scottish case, will likely play the same role in the Australian case and should also do so here. Isn’t it time for an American Center for Lesbian Rights to be born? Lesbians provide the legal checkmate to liberal jurists who’ve never had to contemplate exactly what it means to lesbians when the law replaces sex with gender. Force them to tell us the law requires us to recognize men as lesbians. We should be petitioning to become amici in every one of these cases.
The discussion about how different the left and the right are when it comes to discussing disagreements reminded me of watching the debate on the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act in the House. My partner was watching with me, and he asked, "Why do all the Republicans sound like normal people and all the Democrats sound like they're in a cult?" lol
We love Romy here in SF!
An interesting interview; thank you! Going your own way -- especially in such powerful company, which brooks no dissent -- comes with a cost. Romy Mancini has been willing to pay it; I admire her courage.
I don't think gay rights naturally birthed "trans rights;" however many people conflate the two, they are logically dissonant. After all, if sex was just something you could declare rather than a biological reality, being same-sex attracted would be meaningless, and hardly worth objection. Also, it seems many trans-identified males aren't so much gender-nonconforming in the manner of many gays, but straight autogynephiles happy to have public support for their sexual fetish. If memory serves, Helen Joyce covers the bullying/coercive tactics of early gender activists to hitch their cause to gay rights in her book "Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality." If only earlier leaders of the gay rights movement had had clearer vision and stronger backbones.
Though I never liked the word "Pride," these marches (before they became shopping opportunities) were important, back in the day. In 1991, I co-founded the event in a religiously conservative/military city known for anti-gay sentiment. In that context, refusing to hide -- being publicly, visibly out -- made a statement: We would not stay closeted in deference to real threats to our jobs, our homes, our safety. Pride is now long obsolete in terms of its original purpose, and a travesty as co-opted by gender activists. The same could be said of former gay rights organizations that followed the money and betrayed their one-time constituents.
Check out Malcolm Clark's substack to see the long links between gay rights trans and some unsavoury history too
I remember the Rebellious Lawyering conference! I went there a few times.
Sigh . . . there is much about banding together based on shared experiences of reality which is simply practical, a necessary first step to doing something to reduce injustices; but banding together based on a shared delusion is also a thing. Tricky to decide what's real and what's a delusion, though, especially in a population where fewer and fewer people are adequately literate, let alone scientifically literate. I am bothered by how so many gender criticals casually refer to "the patriarchy" as if it's just as self-evident as the sexual dimorphism of the human species. It's damn hard for us emotionally-blinkered creatures to accurately count the simplest phenomena in large populations, which is why process is so important. And Dr. Guyatt's recent sad example makes clear how being a world-renowned expert in how to do genuine science (as opposed to cargo cult science) provides no protection from deluding oneself. The widespread ignorance of master thinkers, like Thomas Sowell and Rose and Milton Friedman and Eleanor Ostrom among the educated elite progressives is a real problem (thanks to decrepit Universities, no longer devoted to knowledge). How bad have things had to get before so many of the liberal-minded finally wake up to the Yin Yang nature of reality? Pretty bad, when male fetishists feel free to show up to lesbian events and demand "inclusion." How to get the pendulum swinging back towards a more sane middle? There are no solutions, only trade-offs. No silver bullets . . .
Why "Mankeeping" is Alienating Everybody.
How turning human struggles into zero-sum battles pushes us further from real solutions.
Helen Pluckrose
Sep 01, 2025
https://www.hpluckrose.com/p/why-mankeeping-is-alienating-everybody
how do you get rid of trans? One of the Horcrux of this movement is gay rights. trans has hijacked and poison pill gay rights not only that trans is a parasite and how do you get rid of a parasite you have to kill off the host.
What, exactly, are you advocating?
It’s not that hard to comprehend.
Don't keep us guessing.
Shannon, mtf, he/him always
Shannon is an FTM
She votes republican, enough said. Lol have more respect for folks who don’t vote or vote for 3rd party.